"Your life is transformed to the degree that your mind is renewed. Cornel's book goes a long way to removing the hindrances to that renewal."
-Curry R. Blake, John G. Lake Ministries
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This is a subject I feel very strongly about and I am going write about it very bluntly. If you want to make me angry, tell me God permits suffering through sickness for a higher purpose. Not only do I take it personally as an insult to my Dad, but in what way is saying God personally approves of suffering for a higher purpose suppose to give Him any glory? Perhaps like this:
“I give You glory Lord for killing my husband with a heart attack.”
“We praise Your Name for permitting my sister to be diabetic in order to try and draw her closer to you. She really hates You at the moment, but I guess You’re still busy drawing, right? Perhaps make the diabetes worse by letting her lose her eyesight or a leg? That should do the trick. …I hope.”
“Lord, we would be able to give you so much more glory if you would strike this whole congregation with cancer so we could suffer for you day and night in pain and agony. More sickness Lord! Let us suffer for you! Even kill some of us so we can really understand that you came to bring us LIFE and LIFE IN ABUNDANCE, or at least those who are so prideful!”
If this is your idea of glorifying God, you need to think again before you say or believe stupid things. “Come now Cornel, you are taking things a little out of context, you are being too extreme.” I have to be extreme to make my point because most of the “church” seems to believe God places His stamp of approval on certain cases of sickness and suffering for a higher purpose, like His glory, or drawing people closer, or teaching us lessons. Not to mention punishment of sin…
Before somebody jumps on his or her bandwagon, I am not talking about persecution. I am talking about sickness. Persecution is suffering at the hands of other people for preaching the gospel. You have to actually preach the gospel before you can claim persecution, so even there a large part of the ‘church’ is lacking. I am in a new covenant with God. We relate to each other in a totally new way, unlike God has related to man in times past. Sickness is NOT a better promise. Sickness is a curse, even under the old covenant. Those who want to justify sickness and suffering under the banner of God’s sovereign permission, answer me this:
- If your sickness is God’s will, aren’t you in rebellion if you go to the doctor or take medicine?
- If God both heals and permits sickness, is His Kingdom divided?
- If God approves of sickness and suffering but Jesus heals and delivers, then is Jesus in rebellion against God? Is Jehovah Rapha having an identity crisis?
- Should we pray for our unsaved friends and family members to get sick so they can be drawn closer to God?
- If the Holy Spirit is our teacher and some say God uses sickness to teach us and draw us closer, does that make the Holy Spirit a spirit of infirmity?
- Why is there not one account of Jesus NOT healing a sick person and telling them there is purpose in their sickness as opposed to multiple cases of Him, the disciples and the early church healing all?
- Did God get glory from restoring the blind boy’s sight in John 9, or by keeping him blind?
- If God’s will is to be done on earth AS IT IS IN HEAVEN, and His heavenly will on earth for you is sickness, then doesn’t that mean you will be sick in heaven for all eternity? Or does God have a different will here on earth than He does in Heaven? Is God double-minded?
I can go on and on but hopefully you get the point. For more on this, read ‘Who Are You Representing?‘ and watch these 2 videos:
The Sovereignty of God – Andrew Wommack
Jesus Healed Them All – Ryan Rhoades
In Grace
Cornel
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Awesome Cornel!!! preach it!
Good stuff! Awesome! Keep it coming!
Thanks for speaking up! This is an emotionally charged subject because the belief that God ‘chooses’ people to suffer sickness for His glory is so rampant in our so-called Christian society. I watched a movie just yesterday (“Letters to God”) about how one boys cancer was chosen by God to inspire people to get in touch with God. It’s an all-too-common theme in our society.
It seems that no one ever asks why this boy (for example) couldn’t have inspired people to write letters to God w/o being a cancer sufferer. I suppose it is because when you are sick, people feel sorry for you so they pay attention or ‘honor’ you out of pity or something.
Yet, there are MANY people who have inspired others to do great things – w/o being terminally ill. Why do we as a society think that God needs to use sickness to be an inspiration to others? I NEVER hear even Christians acknowledge that there is an ENEMY who seeks to kill and destroy mankind, because these same people believe that God has to be in control of everything, therefore He has to be behind sickness or He wouldn’t be God. Thank you for posting Andrew’s message on the TRUTH about God’s sovereignty. More Believers need to know the truth and quit playing into the lies of the enemy – especially ‘Christian’ fill-makers and authors, because it is these mass-media stories that keep propagating the lie.
I’m so glad this rant offered an explanation of our sickness and death.
I’m so glad the speaker in the video (after talking about how Almighty was mistranslated to Sovereign) mistook “perish” in 2Peter to be referring to physical death when it refers eternal destruction. (not suffering in hell, but permanent destruction).
I’m so glad the videos ignored such passages that teach God’s supreme control over everything such as….oh I don’t know…THE ENTIRE BOOK OF JOB, Matthew 10:28-36 “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One (God) who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows……Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”
Also Psalm 139:13 and 16 “For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb……All the days ordained for me were written in your book.”
But of course, we can pick and choose which scripture makes our god sound as convenient as we want our god to be.
Or we can pay attention to scripture and understand that God’s ways are not our ways. And that we know in part, but THEN we shall know in full. We are not called to understand, but called to have faith.
Ben, sickness and death are as a result of sin. (Rom 5:12). Your natural body has been tainted with sin. For that very reason Jesus came to redeem us, spirit, soul and body. Paul makes it clear that even though we have received our redeemed spirits at salvation, we are still waiting for our new bodies and souls.
Rom 8:23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
Phl 3:20-21 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.
Until such time our current bodies will deteriorate and die. But natural deterioration and death through sickness are two very different things. I will fight sickness until my last breath, but of death I have no fear. Of hell and eternal destruction I have no fear for I am in Christ, united forever.
If we are not called to understand as you say, how do you explain Paul praying for church after church to receive understanding? Why did we receive the mind of Christ? Why are told to renew or minds to God’s will? How can you renew your mind to His will unless He reveals it? That stand to reason then that since mind renewal is possible, God has revealed His will. And no, Job is not God’s will revealed. Jesus is. God relates to people through covenant. We have no idea what covenant Job had with God. I have a very good understanding of the covenant He made for us. Sickness, destruction, wrath, fear and all these things are not part of that covenant.
I know full well that sin and disease and death are results of a fallen world due to sin. I know that it is not God’s desire for us to have these things.
Yet my point goes deeper, much deeper into how the glory of God is revealed.
The glory of God is revealed in much more than simply what we consider to be “good.” Sickness as a result of sin, a consequence, by itself can bring glory to God because we receive what we, sinful human beings deserve; consequences of our sin.
The glory of God is revealed in His perfect love. How can we know all the attributes of His perfect love if we do not sin and need redemption, grace, mercy, forgiveness, and compassion? It would not bring God glory to have to hide these attributes of His perfect love. The only way He can do that is if sin enters the world and we become fallen. He does not desire that any should perish, but I have never found a passage in scripture that says He did not plan for the fall. Rather the opposite is what I see in scripture. Immediately after the fall, God promises deliverance and a way out. Unless you assume this was a random spur of the moment idea that God had and said “Whew, I figured out a way to make this work out in the end,” the only other conclusion is that this was God’s master plan from the start.
There is a clear and distinct difference between God’s will (as described in the bible) and His plan, sovereignty, and control over all things that happen.
Unfortunately this concept that things can happen outside of God’s control is taking the idea of God’s will as it is described in the bible, and applying it to the popularized concept of God’s will in our modern Christian culture. Both are true in part and neither are true in full.
Rather than trying to box God into an ideal that is convenient, we should study what His word has revealed to us and accept all of it, not rejecting parts that don’t agree with our own minds.
As far as understanding, Paul prays for understanding because that is good to have. Revelation of God to man is always beneficial, yet Paul himself admits that he only knows in part and will not know fully until the end. On the other hand, Christ tells us that unless we have the faith of a Child, we will never enter the kingdom of heaven. This is a beautiful picture because a child will accept the truth of their parents even without understanding in full. Yet they will continually ask “why” because they hunger and thirst for knowledge and for the truth and for understanding, but when there is an answer that they simply cannot understand all of the reasons why, they will trust their parents and believe on faith.
I did not say that Job was “God’s will revealed,” so please don’t rephrase my statements into sounding like that is something I believe or said. I did say that it is an EXAMPLE given to us in scripture of God’s supreme CONTROL over all things. That even our enemy, Satan, has no power over the authority of God. That if God says “You may not do this,” Satan is bound to those commands.
Ben, your reasoning makes no sense. You say “How can we know all the attributes of His perfect love if we do not sin and need redemption, grace, mercy, forgiveness, and compassion?” If God’s love is revealed to me through sin, should I sin more and more so I could know more of His love? Let me sin more so God can forgive me more, have more compassion and grace towards me. That’s ridiculous. Adam and Eve walked with God every day, fully experiencing His love before they sinned and fell. God does not need sin to be the vessel through which He reveals love. Jesus is that vessel.
You also say: “There is a clear and distinct difference between God’s will and His plan, sovereignty, and control over all things that happen.” So God’s will and His plan does not line up? He wills one thing but plans and executes something else? Is God acting outside His own will? I think not. Here is God’s will:
1Ti 2:3-6 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For [there is] one God and one Mediator between God and men, [the] Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
The word ‘saved’ is the Greek word sozo which is the exact same word for delivered, make whole, protected, and specifically to set free from suffering brought on by sickness.
If sickness brought glory to God, Jesus would have spread disease, not healed it.
Please read this.
Who Are You Representing?/
You also say: “That even our enemy, Satan, has no power over the authority of God. That if God says “You may not do this,” Satan is bound to those commands.” Does that mean that humans have power over the authority of God? Did God not command Adam to not eat of the tree? Yet Adam did. Did God not command Samson to not cut his hair? Yet he did. Did God not command Israel to not do certain things? Yet they did. Are we humans not bound to God’s sovereign commands? God is sovereign, but His sovereignty doesn’t mean in control of everything. If He were in control of everything, it would mean we have no free will and He would be causing us to sin. The Queen is also sovereign. She has the highest authority in England. Yet not every person in England does what she commands. ‘Yes, but she doesn’t control their actions.’ Exactly, because sovereignty and control are not the same thing. In the same way, God is sovereign, but does not control our actions.
This is great Cornel…. I am so grateful that I have finally woken up to the reality of God’s grace and the Lord Jesus’ FINISHED work and God’s mysteries REVEALED!!!
Oh yes, God is Great and He is Good!
Sickness and poverty do not glorify God… He is our deliverer and that is who He is!
This is what I mean about people like Ben. They say two different things in one sentence. When a person teaches another person things like sickness is God’s will, or sickness comes from God, or God doesn’t heal everyone, I call that oppression. The reason being is, it does not give anyone hope of being healed. What the person is doing is saying this- God does heal (hope!) but He doesn’t heal everyone (remove the hope). Does that sound like God??? The oppression is this- you take away any hope at all for a person to have faith. When a person thinks- or believes their sickness is from God, how can they hope or believe against that? A person is taught in church the power of God, which is true- and its amazing and He is the Mighty Lord! But then you tell that person his/her sickness is from God or that its not His will to heal them, how can you expect them to have hope and faith of healing? How can you tell them to believe? How can you say the Bible says to believe but you might not get healed anyway.
The bible that I read, at least my version, clearly states that the devil is the author of all sickness.
@ Ben: THAT is the craziest thinking I have ever had the misfortune to be shoved down my throat.
God help us.
Kelly
PS- “Called to have faith”
What does God’s word say about faith? Even our human definition of faith says “complete trust, confidence”. Jesus tells us to have faith, believe. He tells us if we have faith- (complete trust and confidence in who? GOD, His word) whatever we ask for, we shall have.
How is it a person can look at Mark 11:23 and say its not true that God wants us all healed, or in fact they ignore that scripture all together. I find that people who doubt and who claim God doesn’t want to heal everyone wont ever explain that scripture to me in their words.
Instead of focusing on those who dont get healed and then jumping up and pointing fingers shouting “See! It isnt His will to heal everyone!!!”, focus on the ones who do get healed, and then even find out from them how their healing came about! Someone told me once when healing does not occur- the deficit is NOT on God’s part. How many times in the Bible does Jesus say – YOUR FAITH HAS HEALED YOU???
Sadly, if a person does not get healed- how can anyone blame or say it was God? I ask- how was the person’s faith? People dont want to say anything “bad” about someone who has passed on. Well, it isnt bad to say their faith was lacking, its the truth. Perhaps their faith was such as – well, I HOPE he heals me. Thats not faith. Faith is THANK YOU FOR HEALING ME! Faith is believing you have received it, EVEN if you dont feel it. Only believing something when you see it or feel it is not the faith God talks about. My mother doubted herself to death. She didn’t doubt herself- as in her power, she doubted her self- her body to death. I tried to get her to believe that God healed her, and when she didn’t feel it, or see it, she doubted more and more and she got sicker, day after day. It was heart wrenching. She was only 60. I knew in my spirit how wrong it was for her to be so sick. It was not God’s will for her to suffer and die as she did. Jesus already suffered for us. Its arrogant to think we could ever suffer “like Jesus” to be more “Christ like”. She suffered needlessly. I never blamed God though. Never. and I never will. I dont even blame my Mom, but I know she did not have faith.
Abraham, when told by God he would be a father to many- before he became that father was FULLY PERSUADED that God was powerful enough to do what He said and therefor believed he was already a father long before there was the physical baby.
Romans 4 : 16- 22
16 So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe. 17 That is what the Scriptures mean when God told him, “I have made you the father of many nations.”[d] This happened because Abraham believed in the God who brings the dead back to life and who creates new things out of nothing.
18 Even when there was no reason for hope, Abraham kept hoping—believing that he would become the father of many nations. For God had said to him, “That’s how many descendants you will have!”[e] 19 And Abraham’s faith did not weaken, even though, at about 100 years of age, he figured his body was as good as dead—and so was Sarah’s womb.
20 Abraham never wavered in believing God’s promise. In fact, his faith grew stronger, and in this he brought glory to God. 21 He was fully convinced that God is able to do whatever he promises. 22 And because of Abraham’s faith, God counted him as righteous.
Do not waver! Keep pressing into God, read His word! Faith comes by hearing the word of God- and even more so when you speak it! Every time God spoke in the book of Genesis- life was created! Speak the scriptures over your life, over your body and watch what happens!
Get rid of your “Well I wont believe it til I see/feel it” faith ! Thats not faith! Believe that God has the power to full fill His promises! THAT’S FAITH! Believe you have already received it and that seed will grow and bloom into the healing (you already have) that was promised! Why? How do I know? BECAUSE God said so! And who has access to God’s word??? Just me? NO! EVERYONE! God’s will is for everyone to have their inherited birthright! To be saved and to be healed! To have access to His word and to believe it! You wouldnt pray for someone to be saved like this “God, if its your will, please save John”. Would you? NO! We know its God’s will for ALL Of us to be saved- its our choice of course, but He doesn’t ever say NO when a person first believes in Jesus as savior! So why do people question Him about healing? Just as our sins are forgiven, the moment it was finished on the cross, so was our sickness/diseases healed. At that very same moment.
People are taking the faith word not as God intended it. Thats the only conclusion I can come up with. I know I was there. I “had” faith, but it was limited. Thats not faith at all. I now have complete trust and confidence that God has the power. I have complete trust and confidence that when Jesus said it is finished on the Cross, it IS FINISHED. COMPLETED. Already done- paid the price, my sins were (are) forgiven and I am healed. I believe that. There is no “but” after my sentence. If you are putting a “butt” were God has put a period, your wrong.
Kelly